I beleive there will be some sort of end-times collaboration between the some parts of Christianity and Islam and maybe others as well. The whore of Babylon is definitely an evil world system, controlled by the Antichrist, during the last days before Jesus’ return, and has religious connotations. It is most likely an end-times religious system or confederacy, probably revolving around some sort of cult leander or anti-christ.
Sea Breeze
JoinedPosts by Sea Breeze
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78
How can Babylon the Great be the WORLD of false religion?
by BoogerMan in(revelation 17:5) “babylon the great, the mother of the prostitutes (plural!
) and of the disgusting things of the earth.”.
btg is spotlighted as being the principal "disgusting thing" which affects christians & christianity, with other lesser "prostitutes" in the background... (revelation 18:4) “get out of her, my people, (christians) if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.".
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Sea Breeze
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5
Request--Pastor Russell's World Tour Video in English!
by Atlantis inhi grandpa!.
do you happen to have russell's world tour video?
thx!.
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Sea Breeze
https://archive.org/details/allaboutonerusse00cook/page/12/mode/2up
Russell's World Tour to investigate missions was little more than a publicity stunt. He met with virtually ZERO missionaries and his ports were what a typical vacation tour would use. He was later interviewed by a reporter and the findings are listed in the link above. He sought to discredit Christian Missionaries and install himself as responsible for the world's Salvation as a result of being the one "appointed over all of Christ's belongings":
Couple of excerpts:1. "The acceptance of Russell as 'that servant' was made a test of fellowship among his followers, we are told, by the written statement of some who had been of that number, but who subsequently joined the large procession that is steadily falling away from 'Pastor' Russell.
This fact gives point to such statements as the following from a 'souvenir' of one of Russell's convention trips, indorsed by a fac-simile of his signature: 'If any oppose the Lord by opposing the Channel (i. e., The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society) and the Servant (i. e., Russell) the Lord has delegated to do his work, to that extent he loses the favor, the Spirit of the Lord; light becomes darkness, and he is soon outside.' This same volume reports addresses, showing supposed Bible prefigurations and prophecies of Russell that are shocking to Christian nonbelievers in Russellism."
On page 298 of his "Watch Tower," of issue of Sept. 15, 1910, it is written concerning his books :
"If the six volumes of 'Scripture Studies' are practically the Bible, topically arranged, with Bible proof text given, we might not improperly name the volumes 'The Bible in an Arranged form.' That is to say, they are not merely comments on the Bible, but they are practically the Bible itself . . .
"Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying in the Bible by itself, but we see also that if anyone lays the 'Scripture Studies' aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years — if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.
2. "As I have studied the faces of hundreds of Russell's followers I have judged them to be mechanics, farmers and small tradesmen. They are the weaklings from among these great groups; the kind of people who always must have a leader; they lend a ready ear to a religion of authority; they like to think that they are studying things out for themselves. Actually, of course, they are gulping down wholesale whatever is given them. They are charmed by the magic of the words "truth" and "light," and the Russell literature is freely sprinkled with these.
Give the average man a guarantee that there is no hell, and you will tickle him in the right place. Tell him that the heathen are not lost, and it meets his heartiest approval. Show him that the worst the very wicked (Russell's few incorrigibles, for it seems that even he is not equal to saving all sinners) need expect is non-existence after death, and he is "with you."
He will wax eloquent in expatiating upon, and in defending such an easy-going, "common sense," satisfying religion, and will subscribe handsomely and voluntarily for its promulgation.
We have observed Russellism for a long time and have never yet known an unregenerate person who looked into it, but who liked it. It is a religion made strictly for the fleshly man, and is a perfect fit.
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Who really ARE the "true Christians?"
by BoogerMan inw93 11/1 p. 32 - "today, there has to exist a people, not just scattered individuals, who fit jesus’ description of true christians and who make god’s name manifest.".
and here was i thinking that true christians had to proclaim jesus' name!!!
matthew 10:18; mark 13:9; luke 24:48; john 1:15; john 5:37; john 8:18; john 15:26, 27; acts 1:8; acts 9:15; acts 10:39; acts 10:43; acts 13:31; acts 22:15; acts 22:20; acts 23:11; acts 26:16; 1 corinthians 1:6; 1 timothy 2:6, 7; 2 timothy 1:8; 1 john 5:9; revelation 1:9; revelation 12:17; revelation 17:6; revelation 19:10; revelation 20:4. how could the faithful evil slave get something so important, so wrong?.
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Sea Breeze
@ VH7
Good point. Also, since the Great Crowd are not justified (declared righteous) they have no explanation on how they plan to escape the wrath of God:
Romans 5: 1 & 9
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
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Waiting On Jehovah First Mentioned?
by Ron.W. inyes, waiting on jehovah for him to handle a problem/ doctrine etc.. when did the jw's first start saying that?
they've been saying it as long as i can remember.. what scriptures do they trot out to back that teaching up?
?.
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Sea Breeze
"waiting upon Jehovah for salvation "
More WT manure. The Bible clearly teaches that the moment a person turns from his sin and trusts in Jesus (Not Jehovah) to be forgiven of his sin, he is saved (Acts 2:37-41). He has passed from spiritual death to spiritual life (John 5:24) and has been declared not guilty in God's court of law (Rom 3:21-26)
And not only that, a person can have an internal "knowing" that he/she is saved. This is a tremendous comfort:
- The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God
- These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life
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48
Is Jesus God?
by Sea Breeze ini know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.
but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.
scripture says he's the creator.
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Sea Breeze
@Sanchy
One of the primary agruments from atheists is that God cannot exist because of the existence of evil. But, then they turn right around and mock the idea of God's judgment of the evil they claim is evidence of God's non-existence.
That doesn't make any sense. The only way to preserve Free Will and justice is to judge evil, just as all free societies do in courts of law. Jesus claimed judgment will certainly happen and offers himself as a substitute for that judgment.
I am not surprised that God would offer himself in place of his children, like many other parents have done with their own children:
"In April 2010, devastating tornadoes struck 17 counties in Mississippi. When one came barreling through Yazoo City, Nikki knew she had to protect her kids.
The 30-year-old mom placed a mattress over her three small sons and planted herself on top of it to shield them as the house came down around them. All three boys made it through the storm, but unfortunately Nikki did not. The children's grandmother, Sherry Carpenter, later said, "She saved those kids and gave her life, but that was Nikki, because those kids came first."
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Is Jesus God?
by Sea Breeze ini know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.
but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.
scripture says he's the creator.
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Sea Breeze
Here's a relevant post from FB:
Let’s talk about Hebrews 1:6 from a different angle. This verse is where the Father says ”And let all the angels of God worship Him.” in reference to Jesus, or as the NWT renders it, “do obeisance to him”.So how can we determine the most accurate way to translate this verse without the typical and unfruitful argument over the Greek?Well, let’s take a look at what the watchtower has done throughout the years in regards to this verse.- In the 1969 Kingdom Interlinear, even though they changed the Greek rendering to be “let do obeisance toward”, they still render the actual translation as “let all God's angels worship him."- In the 1984 NWT (with references) it reads "And let all God's angels do obeisance to him."Now the important part of this, is in the reference column of the 1984 NWT, where there’s a reference to Deuteronomy 32:43. If you go read Deuteronomy 32:43, you won’t really find anything that seems to be a reference to Hebrews 1:6, but if you look a little closer at the reference, it actually says “De 32:43 LXX”. This LXX is a reference to the Lexicon or what’s more commonly known as the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament.What do you see when you read the Septuagint version of Deuteronomy 32:43? You see this: “43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him;…”So these words are said about the Father in Deuteronomy 32:43, then the Father literally quotes Deuteronomy 32:43 as a directive for all of his angels to WORSHIP Jesus in Hebrews 1:6.The worst part about all of this is that the watchtower knows all about it because they put the reference in the NWT. The reference has obviously been removed from the latest online version of the NWT, but you can go download the 1984 NWT in pdf format right off their website and see it for yourself. Clear as day, they reference the LXX / Septuagint version of Deuteronomy 32:43 in Hebrews 1:6. They make that connection themselves, all on their own.So it’s blatantly clear to anyone doing just some basic research, comparing practically every other reputable translation along with the Septuagint, that this should absolutely be rendered as WORSHIP, and not how the latest NWT butchers it. The watchtower says it themselves by using that reference.I know it, the watchtower knows it, and now you know it too. -
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Have I Drifted Too Far?
by sinboi ini was shocked, really shocked.
what i am doing now is so acceptable to the friends around me.. my friends are all doing it.
it is so normal in the society,.
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Sea Breeze
I don't know what you posted on Reddit. But, joining the military is a time honored method of disagreeing with a family or origin. It is very respectable. Thank you for your service.
Perhaps give yourself some time to find yourself and discover who you are. All of us here have family that are so hard headed that they have chosen to not be part of our lives. It's normal. You can deal with it. You can find a new tribe, and perhaps have a few relics of your old one too. But, maybe not. Life is precious. Don't waste it.You can do it. Just honor yourself and seek to honor others.
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Is Jesus God?
by Sea Breeze ini know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.
but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.
scripture says he's the creator.
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Sea Breeze
TonusOH: Sounds like he is a stickler for technicalities. If he paid a price to redeem me, why not just
apply it and save me?Because you have to receive the payment. Michael the Archangel didn't make the payment for you. Somewhat cryptically Abraham noted that Jehovah would provide himself as a sacrifice:
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father...and he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb - Gen. 22: 7-8
It is your sinful nature this is opposed to accepting the terms of God. Sinful man is never satisfied with much of anything.... always wanting more, even from God. Cain had a similar objection:
Cain and Abel, "in the course of time” brought offerings to the Lord (Genesis 4:3). Without doubt, they were doing this because God had revealed to them the necessity of a sacrifice. God probably gave some details of what was acceptable, although those instructions are not included in the Genesis narrative.
Abel brought “the best portions of the firstborn lambs from his flock” (Genesis 4:4, NLT). Cain was a farmer, and his offering was “some of his crops” (Genesis 4:4, NLT).Cain was really put off when his offering wasn't accepted. So, he (in effect) shook his fist at heaven and said, "That should have good enough for you"!
Unable to attack God, he murdered his brother in a jealous rage instead.
Receiving the payment from the right Jesus is crucial. It would be like providing a million dollar ransom with counterfeit bills and wondering why it wasn't acceptable.
Of course, logic doesn't really matter much when our very nature is opposed to God. The sinful nature can't be redeemed, it must die one way or another. That is why Jesus told Nicodemus three times that we must be "born again". The sinful self naturally doesn't want to die. But, the last time I checked, the death rate has been hovering steadily around 100%. So, logically, it really shouldn't matter to us. There is no down-side.
But, like I said, logic doesn't really matter much when you are fighting for your "life".... the one that will end in a few short years anyway.
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Is Jesus God?
by Sea Breeze ini know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.
but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.
scripture says he's the creator.
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Sea Breeze
The idea that Jesus is one person of a tri-personal God, eternally begotten, not made, and that he has two natures was an idea that was developed centuries later than the NT
@SBF
That is identical to WT theology. Here's my rebuttal to that on the previous page. Care to comment on the points:
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
And elsewhere in Scripture:
2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
And in writings of early church leaders trained by the apostles:
Ignatius of Antioch (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110])“To the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God”. “For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).
Justin Martyr
“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
And the many good points from "Got Questions":
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
I think Jesus' prediction that he would resurrect himself from the dead, while he was dead is the very best evidence he was God. It is far better than a simple proclamation which anyone can do, as I previously pointed out. This is the nail in the coffin on any doubt as to the deity of Jesus.
The reason this issue is so important is becasue we are saved by a legal agreement called (and described in Mt. 26: 27-28) the new covenant (New Contract). Rather than being a national contract like the one mediated by Moses in the OT, this one is a personal agreement with only two names on it - Jesus and the believer.
If you make an agreement with the wrong Jesus, your contract isn't valid. -
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The Reason Behind Recent Watchtower Changes
by Vanderhoven7 ineric wilson's video is worth a view.. https://youtu.be/iil4fryuczk?si=f566n0tdqgpqc2ok.
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Sea Breeze
So, a female WT lawyer (without a head covering, I might add) in a court hearing, made the biggest docttrinal chage in 80 years for the old geezers - the F&DS are no longer the 144K, but only the GB are. The lawyer made the doctrinal change for the WT, because the global group of the remnant of the 144K were being sued.
That's cool.... I'm diggin' it.
Lawyer quote:
"The F&DS class area a theological arrangement. And to understand what that means, think of a musical arrangement, you can listen to it, you can read the sheet music, but the sheet music isn't the music. You can have a recording of it, but it doesn't exist."
What a load of hot steaming lawyering manure.